112937-a-new-article-on-the-status-of-the-game
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Well yeah, you have to be a subscriber to post on the forum, anybody can post a comment on an article. As for an article, I do agree with some of it. But some of the things that drove people away are the things that keep me here(Hell some of the changes I would like would drive even more people away). | |} ---- Well another thing is that MOBAs focus on being more competitive and if you play casually you don't need to put much time into it. Like in Smite joust game mode, it can take around 8 to 12 minutes for a game. | |} ---- Uh... no. Just no. Purely match-based PvP (and mostly isometric) games are something entirely different. I have nothing against them, I'm not saying Wildstar is MORE fun... but "apples and oranges" doesn't even begin to cut it here. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Even when they didn't have the mega server tech ready, they still should of done the free transfers earlier, that would of helped out a lot in August. | |} ---- Your opinion. I am not going to lie either, I got opinions as well... I want my RP server and solo end game content... I probably won't get it. | |} ---- It's more like apples and liver. Both are healthy, but only one is actually pleasant to eat. | |} ---- 1) Don't diss liver, it's tasty (though its health benefits are actually arguable, considering its role in the body's toxin/waste disposal systems). 2) That still doesn't make it a relevant point then. You might as well say... "The problem with MMOs is that they're not Call of Duty. Everybody loves Call of Duty multiplayer". | |} ---- Wait are you saying MOBAs are better than MMO? Because if you are... I agree. | |} ---- With a post like that, from you, I wouldn't blame them. Anyone that posts anything contradicting rainbows and butterflies on these forums will adequetaly be met with resistance, name-calling, and general mud slinging. That's expected, though, because these are the official forums. However, I've been part of other games where criticism was welcomed if written the right way. WildStar's fanbase, for better or worse, just doesn't deal with that too well. Maybe it's because some are too protective of it because they think of this game as the "last salvation" for the genre. As soon as the playerbase becomes more accepting of coming and going players, which all MMOs need, WildStar will start doing better. | |} ---- I don't see that very often, I see good criticism get "upvoted/like" on the forums here and discussion happen. But I guess that may of been the first 3 months, the forum has been de-evolving lately. But most of the time majority of the forum agree with the well written criticism. Look back at when PvP was in a worst state than it was now. | |} ---- Well that is the problem! These Moba players enjoy "toxic" ( i don't play these game, yet it is a popular word) interactions and they are trying to do the same thing with MMORPGs. Also I would argue with the "fun" part. These games are popular, because couch potatoes who can't do any kind of sport now get this awesome lazy e-sport with the word "sport" in it. And I would argue about the hardcore part as well - the majority of players think that they are pro-gamers. "Mid or AFK!" ftw. And for the last part - F2P plays a major role in all of this. The game is accessible to kids, which promotes mean behaviour due to the possibility to create unlimited number of new accounts. | |} ---- No, these games are popular because A.) They're competitive, and B.) They take skills yet they are very easy to pick up and play. But you are right, unfortunately MOBAs are plagued with toxic communities, but I blame that on the combination of how competitive it is and free to play. | |} ---- ---- This. The sad fact is that people are easily influenced and articles like these can quickly turn into self-fulfilling prophecies, because they are making the problems that they complain about even worse. | |} ---- ---- Plenty of people, including myself, don't like any of those games. What's your point? | |} ---- Well that's a load of nonsense if I've ever heard it. For one thing, the moderators here are way more active than most forums, and secondly I've never seen a single post slamming people for having an opinion. | |} ---- /nosarcasm Yes. If your ideas are right, over time, more and more people will agree with you as the evidence for your position piles up. That's the way progress happens. (I'm speaking outside the realm of the 100% subjective, of course.) Minority opinions that are correct do not remain minority opinions forever. | |} ---- This is actually a good point. Maybe we should do some white-knighting to even the playing field. It is in our best interest to promote the game. | |} ---- Not true in the least. Ask 100 people why we have seasons; 90-95 will give you an incorrect response. Sure we can make some very VERY general statements about intellectual progress; but they are loose generalizations, and tend not to hold well in practice. Most majority opinions are, to be blunt, false. This is why a minority of people (scientists/scholars) are responsible for progressing the majority of human knowledge. Most people rely on heuristic understanding; rather than accurate knowledge. Sure we can discuss opinions all the way home; and opinions are powerful because people will internalize them when published as if they hold some weight or authority. But in the end, opinion is what it is; and much like *cupcake* holes, everyone has one (except this kid, but let's no split hairs) | |} ---- When i started leveling a bunch of alts in SWTOR i made the same observation as the quote above. And though i didnt do any dungeons at all in SWTOR (did a butt ton of them in WoW though) i heard from everyone else that there wasnt a lot of dungeons in SWTOR at launch. I guess not a lot when compared to other games out at the time. When i played WS and i started leveling alts i made the exact same observation here. ark ship > 2 zones > 2 zones > 1 zone all the way to level cap. After seeing that i actually thought the same thing about Wildstars endgame dungeons...i thought to myself that if they could afford to do several more branching paths after Auroria/Galeras i wonder how many end game dungeons they have. And of course there was all the feedback about the gear system and the attunement system. I did my molten core attunement, bwl attunement (i gotta put my hand where? thats it?) and also the attunements that were there at TBC launch like Kara, urn for Nightbane, SSC, TK and of course Hyjal. I also didnt mind that i had to farm normal mode dungeons to unlock my heroic key first. But when i hear about WS attunement and the medal system i cant help but think that maybe they went a little overboard or that they tried too hard to be different, but instead they borked it up. | |} ---- ---- Isn't this just your variation on the old forum trope about people preferring McDonalds to some form of fine dining? Seems like obfuscation to me. On topic, the article suggests: - Megaserver announcement at this point suggests that Wildstar is suffering, or at least starting to suffer, from lack of players. - That megaservers will be problematic for the playerbase, especially sub communities like roleplayers. - That much of the game's progression is too precipitously gated to allow for a large and varied general playerbase. - That Wildstar's particular style of combat--that is, extremely movement oriented--can be experienced as taxing at times. - That the game's linear leveling design does not encourage replayability. - That Carbine must be radical in their refocus of the game's design to the same extent as Bioware was with SWTOR, and not simply reinvest into their original design to the same extent as Mythic did with Warhammer Online. - Free to play transition should be currently in the works and not simply considered as a future option when resources may be too depleted to cover its costs. I must admit that I'm no great fan of gaming websites preference for op-ed, but this is the world we live in. However, though I may not give those highlights my strongly agree checkmark I cannot see a reasonable viewpoint simply dismissing them all together. | |} ---- ---- I do agree with you here Oli. I've been seeing Carbine working on these flaws as soon as they can. I really appreciate that they are holding out on defile to get some more bug fixes and make sure drop 3 be a much better drop. Once PvP is a big thing for me, I'm really glad they got a lot of the problems sorted out there. I rather not have any gear gap at all, but they did a good job at minimizing the gap. | |} ---- I'm not sure how much you read these forums, but as long as criticism is worded constructively (which means clear, non-combative statements about what the player does not like, as well as ideas for how it could be changed for the better), this community generally doesn't attack it. Usually, it's once people start posting things that are unhelpful, such as simply saying "WS IS DYING. OH NOES" or "THX FOR ALL THE FISH. I'M OUT" that things start becoming unpleasant, because there's nothing of substance to be discussed. Liver and apples can both be pleasant to eat. Like many things, it's a matter of opinion. Let's not use poorly-thought-through analogies to make what is already an unhealthy situation even worse. Your TL;DR version reinforced for me that my late-night, bleary-eyed impression of the article was essentially accurate. The article is pointless. While I agree that most of the concerns shouldn't simply be dismissed, at the same time, the author offers absolutely no new insight as to solutions to any of these problems. The closest thing to a suggestion he makes is that Carbine should start working on a F2P transition. How does that fix anything? Making it free doesn't make it good. The comment about "taxing" combat is just laughable, as the combat is a large reason why most people I know got hooked on the game in the first place. It's one of the game systems that is least problematic, IMO, from the standpoint of the game's longevity. It's very clear that the author is late to the doom and gloom party and simply had to put in his 2c without really coming up with anything new or productive to say. He took two months of forum posts, paraphrased it all down into a column of 10 or so paragraphs, and submitted it for his science fair project. Let's not give it more publicity than it deserves. If anything, those of us who post here regularly should sue for plagiarism. | |} ---- I hope you're not implying I'm a white knight. Because if so... just lol. :lol: | |} ---- Certainly that's a reasonable view, Vick. I wasn't suggesting that the article's content was original; rather only that its assertions were defensible. Also, keep in mind that we're talking about a limited scope article intended for a general MMO enthusiast audience who are most likely less familiar with Wildstar's current predicament than are the game's own forum denizens. So, originality may not have been high priority. Moreover, I think the article's lack of solutions is irrelevant when the topic at hand was simply that 'Wildstar ain't doing so good.' I agree, however, with your comment that free-to-play (FTP) transition is not of itself a fix for a struggling game. The author is not particularly clear on the point--at all, really. But he does reference SWTOR, and I think it's reasonable to assume that he believes a similar style FTP transition for Wildstar could be equally effective. I realize that may be a whole other can of worms for some since SWTOR's FTP system has been frequently criticized for being--how should I put it?--extremely un-free. I personally think TOR's FTP system is preferential for those of us who would rather stick with subscription model, as TOR's FTP model keeps much of, if not most of, the integrity and value of maintaining a sub for the game. And on that note, it's worth mentioning that FTP does not have to be awful; nor is there only one way for developers and publishers to utilize and implement it. This is coming from a long time, and even at times devout, proponent of subscription only model--but I've come to know that we of similar sub-inclined minds have long lost that war. And, yes, that is an opinion. But I'm right mixed with arrogance. About the taxing combat: Consider that the author was merely suggesting that extremely active combat may be contributing to player churn insofar as many MMO gamers are not necessarily inclined toward that type of gameplay. Nonetheless, I do agree that Carbine should stick with their extreme movement combat because I believe it is a defining feature of the game, and because I believe that while it may not have truly mass appeal it still can draw an appreciable number of gamers to Wildstar, especially those that are craving that specific style of challenge which I might say is lacking representation in Western MMOs. | |} ---- I think MOBA's success has more to do with the low barrier to entry with a high skill ceiling(arguably). It condenses the setting of a fantasy RPG, gives you a spread of characters to step into, immediately fight with and experience progression with levelling up & item purchasing and upgrades in a 20-40 minute window. It's then repeatable, with long-term account growth and purchases with no immediate buy-in. League had the modern graphics of Heroes of Newerth without the initial $30 cost, and in 2009 that meant the world to players interested DOTA but unwilling to buy either the 7-year old WC3 and expansion for full price or the new game with a questionable playerbase. | |} ---- Disagree. Few people leave a fun game because other people leave. The depopulation of the servers is a symptom. Megaservers do not address the causes. Other changes (attunement changes, bug fixes, RNG changes, less grindy content/tedium reduction) that are in the pipeline will save abs/attract new subs. Megaservers are triage. | |} ---- Because this is an MMORPG. RPGs by nature tend to have gear progression. Most people would not bother with pvp if there were no gear upgrades (look at GW2). There needs to upgrades, but only tiny upgrades in stats (which the current gear gap achieves). | |} ---- ----